Ol'Scool
Subject: Cummins N14 - Red Top vs. Black Top?... any info helpful!... high vs low horse internals/components? |
Have owned N14 red tops at 460 horse and 525 horse but never a black top before. I dont have complaints with N14's other than rebuilding at 500-600k, lower fuel mileage, and ECM's going out.
other than that theyre as solid as any 855 ever was IMO
with that said, I have recently acquired a straight truck with a 1996 built 370 horse Black Top N14
that has 150K ORIGINAL miles
only problem is the truck does not have a jake break.
I am planning on installing jakes, and when we tear into her to do so, I would like to go ahead and bump the engine up
the the truck does have 46k rears and a higher torque tranny so it will handle it, just was kind of a bone stock spec as new so had a lower horse engine in comparison to the specs of the the rest of the truck
heres the issues, what can i bump it to?? I would actually like to go to 525+ but have been getting mixed information as to if the "non-accessory" components in black top n14's and red top n14's are the same
do they have the same internals?????
if not, what is different??
if so, will injectors, a re-burned ecm, intercooler, and turbo be the only difference??
seriously, any information would be more than greatly appreciated!!
the """"Cummins Tech""""" i spoke with today didnt make much sense and was talking in circles
ended up
calling back and said if i wanted to bump it up i would need to replace the engine
and that they could do that for me
WOW, THANKS i told him
thats what i want to do, rip out a 150K original mile motor and put in your inframed 1.5 million mile red top out of the wrecked truck you have sitting out back
think they'de let me give them the perfect running 370 horse as a ""Core"" ???
I do thank everyone in advance for any and all information and discussion!!
cr39Subject: RE: Cummins N14 - Red Top vs. Black Top?... any info helpful!... high vs low horse internals/compone |
Subject: Re: Cummins N14 - Red Top vs. Black Top?... any info helpful!... high vs low horse internals/compone |
Liberty, MO
Subject: Re: Cummins N14 - Red Top vs. Black Top?... any info helpful!... high vs low horse internals/compone |
NW KS/ SC ID
there is talk about main bearing caps and cylinder heads fretting much above 525 hp, but it is all heresay, no experience. pete37921xSubject: Re: Cummins N14 - Red Top vs. Black Top?... any info helpful!... high vs low horse internals/compone |
NE SD
Short answer not simple, almost impossible. May involve camshaft, heads, pistons,injectors, I don't know exact specifics but we run Cummins in our trucks (my part) and our shop is Cummins dealer, my partner and or boss owner(shop) has built and overhauled our N 14's. It's far easier to start with a red top if you want big HP. look for a different engine or leave it Ol'ScoolSubject: Re: Cummins N14 - Red Top vs. Black Top?... any info helpful!... high vs low horse internals/compone |
pete37921x - 5/9/2013 00:44
Short answer not simple, almost impossible. May involve camshaft, heads, pistons,injectors, I don't know exact specifics ?? It's far easier to start with a red top if you want big HP. look for a different engine or leave it
may??
thats the real question, do red tops actually have different cams, pistons, etc??? or just rattle canned red valve covers??
one not so reputable source told me they were "probably different" on the inside
another much more reputable source told me he thought they were IDENTICAL other than injectors, fuel delivery and timing, intercooler and turbo setup (and red painted valve covers), but said he "wasnt 100% sure"
thats why i asked because i was hoping someone might have some info or at least some knowledge that might lead to some info
pete37921x - 5/9/2013 00:44
It's far easier to start with a red top if you want big HP. look for a different engine or leave it
im assuming that your assuming in making that statement that the internals are in fact definitely different, because in my situation, i honestly dont think it would be easier to start with a red top if theres not any real difference other than fuel/air... becuase to start with a red top, and have as good of an engine as the 150k one ive got, id need a freshly rebuilt one, so that would put me up around 5 figures not counting the actual horsepower adders and leave me with a perfectly running 370 horse non red top if i didnt end up giving it away as a core
but thats the whole reason im asking!!
and i do thank you very much for your input!! :-)
Subject: Re: Cummins N14 - Red Top vs. Black Top?... any info helpful!... high vs low horse internals/compone |
NE SD
I'm a 100% sure it's not easy, cam, injectors, pistons at a minimum. I think we have done one and it needed an overhaul scott nelsenSubject: Re: Cummins N14 - Red Top vs. Black Top?... any info helpful!... high vs low horse internals/compone |
Leeds, North Dakota
Subject: Re: Cummins N14 - Red Top vs. Black Top?... any info helpful!... high vs low horse internals/compone |
Boone, Iowa
Call Pittsburgh Power and talk to them. They are very knowledgeable with high performance Cummins engines. Have your CPL number in front of you before you call. Phone # is 724-360-4080. combinejockeySubject: RE: Cummins N14 - Red Top vs. Black Top?... any info helpful!... high vs low horse internals/compone |
Edited by combinejockey 5/9/2013 07:42
gavogelSubject: RE: Cummins N14 - Red Top vs. Black Top?... any info helpful!... high vs low horse internals/compone |
Marion,ks
I had a 93 KW with a n14 blacktop I had it turned up to a 460hp,1550 torque setting last I new it was still going at 1.3 million miles. It needed injectors at 600,000. It started life out at 330/1450 thet told me that 460/1550 was the max settings. it. Spent most of it's life turned up to 400plus horsepower. Would not be scared at all to buy it. illinidirtfarmerSubject: Re: Cummins N14 - Red Top vs. Black Top?... any info helpful!... high vs low horse internals/compone |
WC IL
IMHO, 370 horse is plenty for a straight truck anyway. But that's just me. IADAVESubject: Re: Cummins N14 - Red Top vs. Black Top?... any info helpful!... high vs low horse internals/compone |
I would think that it was probably a fleet truck set up at the lower hp but built so that the next owner could just have the specs reset with a computer.
Edited by IADAVE 5/9/2013 20:38
RodInNSSubject: RE: Cummins N14 - Red Top vs. Black Top?... any info helpful!... high vs low horse internals/compone |
As far as the Jake goes... I'd think you could change a lot of shoes for the cost of screwing around and adding a jake. Sometimes a cheap old truck is best just enjoyed as a cheap old truck.
Rod