How many ways can you select 3 people from a group of 6 people?

I’ve always confused “permutation” and “combination” — which one’s which?

Here’s an easy way to remember: permutation sounds complicated, doesn’t it? And it is. With permutations, every little detail matters. Alice, Bob and Charlie is different from Charlie, Bob and Alice (insert your friends’ names here).

Combinations, on the other hand, are pretty easy going. The details don’t matter. Alice, Bob and Charlie is the same as Charlie, Bob and Alice.

Permutations are for lists (order matters) and combinations are for groups (order doesn’t matter).

You know, a "combination lock" should really be called a "permutation lock". The order you put the numbers in matters.

How many ways can you select 3 people from a group of 6 people?

A true "combination lock" would accept both 10-17-23 and 23-17-10 as correct.

Permutations: The hairy details

Let’s start with permutations, or all possible ways of doing something. We’re using the fancy-pants term “permutation”, so we’re going to care about every last detail, including the order of each item. Let’s say we have 8 people:

1: Alice 2: Bob 3: Charlie 4: David 5: Eve 6: Frank 7: George 8: Horatio

How many ways can we award a 1st, 2nd and 3rd place prize among eight contestants? (Gold / Silver / Bronze)

How many ways can you select 3 people from a group of 6 people?

We’re going to use permutations since the order we hand out these medals matters. Here’s how it breaks down:

  • Gold medal: 8 choices: A B C D E F G H (Clever how I made the names match up with letters, eh?). Let’s say A wins the Gold.
  • Silver medal: 7 choices: B C D E F G H. Let’s say B wins the silver.
  • Bronze medal: 6 choices: C D E F G H. Let’s say… C wins the bronze.

We picked certain people to win, but the details don’t matter: we had 8 choices at first, then 7, then 6. The total number of options was $8 * 7 * 6 = 336$.

Let’s look at the details. We had to order 3 people out of 8. To do this, we started with all options (8) then took them away one at a time (7, then 6) until we ran out of medals.

We know the factorial is:

How many ways can you select 3 people from a group of 6 people?

Unfortunately, that does too much! We only want $8 * 7 * 6$. How can we “stop” the factorial at 5?

This is where permutations get cool: notice how we want to get rid of $5 * 4 * 3 * 2 * 1$. What’s another name for this? 5 factorial!

So, if we do 8!/5! we get:

How many ways can you select 3 people from a group of 6 people?

And why did we use the number 5? Because it was left over after we picked 3 medals from 8. So, a better way to write this would be:

How many ways can you select 3 people from a group of 6 people?

where 8!/(8-3)! is just a fancy way of saying “Use the first 3 numbers of 8!”. If we have n items total and want to pick k in a certain order, we get:

How many ways can you select 3 people from a group of 6 people?

And this is the fancy permutation formula: You have n items and want to find the number of ways k items can be ordered:

How many ways can you select 3 people from a group of 6 people?

Combinations, Ho!

Combinations are easy going. Order doesn’t matter. You can mix it up and it looks the same. Let’s say I’m a cheapskate and can’t afford separate Gold, Silver and Bronze medals. In fact, I can only afford empty tin cans.

How many ways can I give 3 tin cans to 8 people?

Well, in this case, the order we pick people doesn’t matter. If I give a can to Alice, Bob and then Charlie, it’s the same as giving to Charlie, Alice and then Bob. Either way, they’re equally disappointed.

This raises an interesting point — we’ve got some redundancies here. Alice Bob Charlie = Charlie Bob Alice. For a moment, let’s just figure out how many ways we can rearrange 3 people.

Well, we have 3 choices for the first person, 2 for the second, and only 1 for the last. So we have $3 * 2 * 1$ ways to re-arrange 3 people.

Wait a minute… this is looking a bit like a permutation! You tricked me!

Indeed I did. If you have N people and you want to know how many arrangements there are for all of them, it’s just N factorial or N!

So, if we have 3 tin cans to give away, there are 3! or 6 variations for every choice we pick. If we want to figure out how many combinations we have, we just create all the permutations and divide by all the redundancies. In our case, we get 336 permutations (from above), and we divide by the 6 redundancies for each permutation and get 336/6 = 56.

The general formula is

How many ways can you select 3 people from a group of 6 people?

which means “Find all the ways to pick k people from n, and divide by the k! variants”. Writing this out, we get our combination formula, or the number of ways to combine k items from a set of n:

How many ways can you select 3 people from a group of 6 people?

Sometimes C(n,k) is written as:

How many ways can you select 3 people from a group of 6 people?

which is the the binomial coefficient.

A few examples

Here’s a few examples of combinations (order doesn’t matter) from permutations (order matters).

  • Combination: Picking a team of 3 people from a group of 10. $C(10,3) = 10!/(7! * 3!) = 10 * 9 * 8 / (3 * 2 * 1) = 120$.

    Permutation: Picking a President, VP and Waterboy from a group of 10. $P(10,3) = 10!/7! = 10 * 9 * 8 = 720$.

  • Combination: Choosing 3 desserts from a menu of 10. C(10,3) = 120.

    Permutation: Listing your 3 favorite desserts, in order, from a menu of 10. P(10,3) = 720.

Don’t memorize the formulas, understand why they work. Combinations sound simpler than permutations, and they are. You have fewer combinations than permutations.

How many ways can you select 3 people from a group of 6 people?

How many ways can you select 3 people from a group of 6 people?

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How many ways can you select 3 people from a group of 6 people?

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How many ways can you select 3 people from a group of 6 people?

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In how many ways to choose a group of 3 people from 6 couples so that [#permalink]

How many ways can you select 3 people from a group of 6 people?
  10 Aug 2006, 18:14

How many ways can you select 3 people from a group of 6 people?

How many ways can you select 3 people from a group of 6 people?

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Question Stats:

How many ways can you select 3 people from a group of 6 people?
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How many ways can you select 3 people from a group of 6 people?
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If a committee of 3 people is to be selected from among 6 married couples such that the committee does not include two people who are married to each other, how many such committees are possible?(A) 20(B) 40(C) 80(D) 120

(E) 160

How many ways can you select 3 people from a group of 6 people?

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How many ways can you select 3 people from a group of 6 people?

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Re: In how many ways to choose a group of 3 people from 6 couples so that [#permalink]

How many ways can you select 3 people from a group of 6 people?
  10 Aug 2006, 18:28

Let me try.... 6 couples = 12 people. There are three slots to be filled. If we start with any of the 12, the second person will have to be out of 10 because the spouse of the first one chosen must be left out. Same philosophy for the third person brings it to 8.

Therefore, 12*10*8 = 960

How many ways can you select 3 people from a group of 6 people?

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Re: In how many ways to choose a group of 3 people from 6 couples so that [#permalink]

How many ways can you select 3 people from a group of 6 people?
  10 Aug 2006, 19:30

mand-y wrote:

in how many ways to choose a group of 3 people from 6 couples so that no couple is chosen

totoal = 12c3 = 220 2 couples and a single = 6x10 = 60

so non couple = 220-60 = 160

How many ways can you select 3 people from a group of 6 people?

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Re: In how many ways to choose a group of 3 people from 6 couples so that [#permalink]

How many ways can you select 3 people from a group of 6 people?
  10 Aug 2006, 21:35

Hey professor, I know you can probably help me with this one. Here is my approach toward the question: Total possibilites: 12C3= 220 Couples: 6C3= 20 220-20 = 200

Could you explain why this is wrong?

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Re: In how many ways to choose a group of 3 people from 6 couples so that [#permalink]

How many ways can you select 3 people from a group of 6 people?
  10 Aug 2006, 22:23

160 Number of ways 3 people can be chosen from 12 = 12C3 = 220 Number of ways a couple can be chosen = 6 Number of ways the third person can be chosen = 10C1 = 10 Hence total number of ways a couple with another person can be chosen = 6*10 = 60

Therefore total number of ways a couple cannot be chosen = 220-60 = 160

How many ways can you select 3 people from a group of 6 people?

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Re: In how many ways to choose a group of 3 people from 6 couples so that [#permalink]

How many ways can you select 3 people from a group of 6 people?
  11 Aug 2006, 03:21

Now i'm confused, I can see you need the formula 12c3 to start with, but can somebody explain the fallacy in my logic above?

On some probability/combinations questions I use the slot method approach and some I use the formula straight, when should I use these methods?

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Re: In how many ways to choose a group of 3 people from 6 couples so that [#permalink]

How many ways can you select 3 people from a group of 6 people?
  11 Aug 2006, 06:08

Just to add to confusion, here is another way: 3 people out of 6 couples with no couple selectd 1. Select either 3 men or 3 women: 2*6C3=40 2. Select 1 man+2 women: 6*5C2=60 3. Select 1 woman+2men: 6*5C2=60 -----------------

Total: 40+60+60=160 ways

How many ways can you select 3 people from a group of 6 people?

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Re: In how many ways to choose a group of 3 people from 6 couples so that [#permalink]

How many ways can you select 3 people from a group of 6 people?
  11 Aug 2006, 06:17

OK, I think the fallacy in my logic above is that I assumed it was a perrmutation rather then a combination. In my approach, XYZ is different from ZXY, even though you have the same set of 3 with no couples.

Since there were 6 couples to mitigate the permuations, (12*10*8)/6 = 160.

How many ways can you select 3 people from a group of 6 people?

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Re: In how many ways to choose a group of 3 people from 6 couples so that [#permalink]

How many ways can you select 3 people from a group of 6 people?
  11 Aug 2006, 10:27

rdw28 wrote:

Hey professor, I know you can probably help me with this one. Here is my approach toward the question:Total possibilites:12C3= 220

Couples: 6C3= 20

220-20 = 200


Could you explain why this is wrong?

here in red part above, you only selected 2 people (actually a couple) not 3 people. you need to select 3 people.

agsfaltex wrote:

I assumed it was a perrmutation rather then a combination

yes, you are correct.

How many ways can you select 3 people from a group of 6 people?

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Re: In how many ways to choose a group of 3 people from 6 couples so that [#permalink]

How many ways can you select 3 people from a group of 6 people?
  11 Aug 2006, 12:23

Wow, I cannot believe I missed that. Thanks again Professor!

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Re: In how many ways to choose a group of 3 people from 6 couples so that [#permalink]

How many ways can you select 3 people from a group of 6 people?
  11 Aug 2006, 12:45

Professor's approach is easier: Men Women 2 (6 men and 2 to choose = 6C2) 1 (4C1) This one woman being selected cannot be the wife of either of the two men selected earlier. Therefore that leaves you with 4 women to choose from (discarding 2 women who are wives of the two men selected)

= Total 6C2 * 4C1 = 60

1 (4C1)similar logic to above 2 (6C2)

= Total 6C2 * 4C1 = 60

3 (All three selected are men) 0

= Total 6C3 = 20

0 3 (All 3 selected are women)= Total 6C3 = 20

Add 60+60+20+20 = 160

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Re: In how many ways to choose a group of 3 people from 6 couples so that [#permalink]

How many ways can you select 3 people from a group of 6 people?
  17 Mar 2015, 10:08

Just stumbled across this from a google search, so I'll add my technique.first step: you can only choose one person from each couple, so I found how many combinations of couples I can have:6c3=20So there are 20 different ways to combine 3 of the 6 couples.second step: once I have chosen the 3 couples to combine I have to choose man/wife from each. There are 2 choices in each of the 3 couples so I think of it as a binary number where 0=female and 1=male:000 = woman,woman,woman001 = woman,woman,man...111 = man,man,manThere are 8 combinations of man/woman from each of the 3 couples (2^3=8)third step: multiply the number of couple combinations (6c3=20) times the number of man/woman combinations (2^3=8) == 160.

Voila!

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How many ways can you select 3 people from a group of 6 people?

Re: In how many ways to choose a group of 3 people from 6 couples so that [#permalink]

How many ways can you select 3 people from a group of 6 people?
  17 Mar 2015, 20:48

mand-y wrote:

In how many ways to choose a group of 3 people from 6 couples so that no couple is chosen

Another single step calculation method is that you can select them using the simple basic counting principle (which arranges them in 1st person, 2nd person and 3rd person) and then you can divide by 3! to un-arrange.First person can be selected in 12 ways.Second person in 10 ways (since the first person selected and his/her partner are not available)Third person in 8 ways (since the first and second people and their partners are not available)Total number of ways = 12*10*8/3! = 160 _________________

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Re: In how many ways to choose a group of 3 people from 6 couples so that [#permalink]

How many ways can you select 3 people from a group of 6 people?
  14 Jul 2015, 02:06

VeritasPrepKarishma wrote:

mand-y wrote:

In how many ways to choose a group of 3 people from 6 couples so that no couple is chosen

Another single step calculation method is that you can select them using the simple basic counting principle (which arranges them in 1st person, 2nd person and 3rd person) and then you can divide by 3! to un-arrange.First person can be selected in 12 ways.Second person in 10 ways (since the first person selected and his/her partner are not available)Third person in 8 ways (since the first and second people and their partners are not available)

Total number of ways = 12*10*8/3! = 160

Why do you divide it by 3!? what do you mean by un-arrange?

Thanks

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Re: In how many ways to choose a group of 3 people from 6 couples so that [#permalink]

How many ways can you select 3 people from a group of 6 people?
  14 Jul 2015, 02:47

patufet6 wrote:

In how many ways to choose a group of 3 people from 6 couples so that no couple is chosenAnother single step calculation method is that you can select them using the simple basic counting principle (which arranges them in 1st person, 2nd person and 3rd person) and then you can divide by 3! to un-arrange.First person can be selected in 12 ways.Second person in 10 ways (since the first person selected and his/her partner are not available)Third person in 8 ways (since the first and second people and their partners are not available)Total number of ways = 12*10*8/3! = 160

Why do you divide it by 3!? what do you mean by un-arrange?

Thanks

When we use the method of placement of objects like 12*10*8 then we MUST take the cognizance of the arrangement of the objects already included in the method.e.g. 5*4*3 = 5C3*3!

e.g. 10*9*8 = 10C3*3!

Similarly, 12*10*8 = Selected of three individuals such that no two form couple INCLUDING Arrangement of those three Individualstherefore, we have to exclude the arrangements of those three individuals (3!) because the question only demand the no. of possible groups and not the arrangement of group members as well.So only selection of those three individuals so that they are not couple = 12*10*8 / 3! = 160I hope it helps! _________________

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Re: In how many ways to choose a group of 3 people from 6 couples so that [#permalink]

How many ways can you select 3 people from a group of 6 people?
  14 Oct 2015, 04:23

mand-y wrote:

In how many ways to choose a group of 3 people from 6 couples so that no couple is chosen

Can somebody help me out with this?Multiple doubts!1. First approach was to select any of the 12 people. As there is another person who will correspond to being a couple there are 10 people and similarly 8 choices for the third place:12*10*8

2. If I take the other approach and subtract no. of ways of selecting a couple and subtract it from the total ways to select 3, how do we get the number of selecting a couple as 60 as mentioned in some posts above?

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Re: In how many ways to choose a group of 3 people from 6 couples so that [#permalink]

How many ways can you select 3 people from a group of 6 people?
  14 Oct 2015, 05:29

longfellow wrote:

mand-y wrote:

In how many ways to choose a group of 3 people from 6 couples so that no couple is chosen

Can somebody help me out with this?Multiple doubts!1. First approach was to select any of the 12 people. As there is another person who will correspond to being a couple there are 10 people and similarly 8 choices for the third place:12*10*8

2. If I take the other approach and subtract no. of ways of selecting a couple and subtract it from the total ways to select 3, how do we get the number of selecting a couple as 60 as mentioned in some posts above?

1. First approach was to select any of the 12 people. As there is another person who will correspond to being a couple there are 10 people and similarly 8 choices for the third place:

12*10*8

This method includes the arrangement of those three individuals to be selected. Since we only require Selection so we shall exclude all arrangements of those three individuals by dividing the result by 3! (no. of ways in which 3 individuals can be arranged amongst each other)

i.e. 12*10*8/3! = 160

2. If I take the other approach and subtract no. of ways of selecting a couple and subtract it from the total ways to select 3, how do we get the number of selecting a couple as 60 as mentioned in some posts above?

Total ways to select 3 out of 12 people = 12C3 = 220No. of ways selecting three people such that 2 of them are a couple = 6C1 * 10 = 606C1 = No. of ways of selecting one couple i.e. 2 people out of 6 couples10 = No. of ways of selecting third person out of remaining 10 individuals (5 couples)

Favorable ways = 220 - 60 = 160

I hope this helps! _________________

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Re: In how many ways to choose a group of 3 people from 6 couples so that [#permalink]

How many ways can you select 3 people from a group of 6 people?
  14 Oct 2015, 06:04

GMATinsight wrote:

longfellow wrote:

mand-y wrote:

In how many ways to choose a group of 3 people from 6 couples so that no couple is chosen

Can somebody help me out with this?Multiple doubts!1. First approach was to select any of the 12 people. As there is another person who will correspond to being a couple there are 10 people and similarly 8 choices for the third place:12*10*8

2. If I take the other approach and subtract no. of ways of selecting a couple and subtract it from the total ways to select 3, how do we get the number of selecting a couple as 60 as mentioned in some posts above?

1. First approach was to select any of the 12 people. As there is another person who will correspond to being a couple there are 10 people and similarly 8 choices for the third place:

12*10*8

This method includes the arrangement of those three individuals to be selected. Since we only require Selection so we shall exclude all arrangements of those three individuals by dividing the result by 3! (no. of ways in which 3 individuals can be arranged amongst each other)

i.e. 12*10*8/3! = 160

2. If I take the other approach and subtract no. of ways of selecting a couple and subtract it from the total ways to select 3, how do we get the number of selecting a couple as 60 as mentioned in some posts above?

Total ways to select 3 out of 12 people = 12C3 = 220No. of ways selecting three people such that 2 of them are a couple = 6C1 * 10 = 606C1 = No. of ways of selecting one couple i.e. 2 people out of 6 couples10 = No. of ways of selecting third person out of remaining 10 individuals (5 couples)

Favorable ways = 220 - 60 = 160

I hope this helps!

Thanks for the quick response. Could you please elaborate on this concept of dividing arrangements by factorial to get selections as I can't get my head around it. As per my opinion, I simply applied the counting method to get the answer.

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Re: In how many ways to choose a group of 3 people from 6 couples so that [#permalink]

How many ways can you select 3 people from a group of 6 people?
  14 Oct 2015, 07:56

longfellow wrote:

Thanks for the quick response. Could you please elaborate on this concept of dividing arrangements by factorial to get selections as I can't get my head around it. As per my opinion, I simply applied the counting method to get the answer.

If you have to select 3 individuals out of 5 people then you solve it like 5C3 = 10But when we solve the question line filling three blank spaces by those 5 individuals then the method says5 options for first place4 options for Second place3 options for Third placei.e. total ways to fill three spaces with 3 of 5 people = 5*4*3 = 60But this 60 includes the arrangement of those 3 individuals i.e. One of the arrangements of three people A, B and C 'ABC' will be treated different from arrangement 'ACB'Now, This same question can be answered as 5C3*3! = 10*6 = 60i.e. 5*4*3 = 5C3*3!i.e. 5C3 = 5*4*3/3! Which is pure selection of 3 out of 5 individuals.I hope this helps! _________________

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How many ways can you select 3 people from a group of 6 people?

Re: In how many ways to choose a group of 3 people from 6 couples so that [#permalink]