My designer recommended the Halo ML56 series, which are available with 5" or 6" trims. The 5" looked much better to me, and uses the same LED module as the 6". We used the Halo ML5609930 LED Module, which features 746 lumens of light output, 90+ CRI, and 3000ðK color temperature ($73 at polar-ray.com was best price I found). We paired those with the 5" remodel housing (Model # H550RICAT; $13 at Home Depot) and 5" White/Haze Trim (Model # 592H; $25 at Home Depot). The 4" options available did not have nearly as many lumens. We used an ELV dimmer from Lutron and can go from very bright to very dim light. We are pleased with the light quality and appearance. From a review: "The ML56 LED Recessed Downlighting System is designed for new construction, remodeling or retrofit into both 5-inch and 6-inch standard and shallow recessed housings by Halo, All-Pro or compatible recessed housings. The available color temperatures include 2700 K, 3000 K, 3500 K and 4000 K options with either an 80 CRI (minimum) or 90 CRI (minimum) option depending on the model selected. The series offers two lumen packages, including the 600 series (9.0 watts/80 CRI and 10.2 watts/90 CRI) and 900 series (13.4 watts/80 CRI or 90 CRI). The 600 series offers up to 708 lumens and the 900 series produces up to 1,010 lumens depending on the trim and color temperature selection. Here is a link that might be useful: Halo ML56 brochure lcskaisgir - Sorry for the delay. I'm making plans to go over again at night to see my friend's lighting and try to figure out what exactly they are. I'll try to explain what I saw. There WAS a rim of trim around the lights that was at ceiling height. The outside measurement was 5" across. But, inside that space, the bulbs did not recess. There was no inner hole, if that makes sense. The bulb seemed like it was 2-3" of LED, surrounded by some kind of casing that made the entire thing flush with the ceiling, not just the trim/rim. Does that make sense? In any case, the result was totally without that cheese holes in the ceiling thing. It looked integrated, clean, seamless, congruent. The bulbs were more sparkley and bright. They didn't diffuse like the 6" bulbs I have seen. Which might actually be better, but I actually liked the sparkley look. I just REALLY worry about my small house with my short ceilings having these holes across the ceiling - and I did not like it in my friend's LR area, where she used the more standard 6" cans with the white rimmed trim around it. I will definitely try to find out more and take pics. It's on my list, bu the week is hammering me... Okay, I have been doing my homework - though I do NOT like what I am finding out! I went over to my friend's and took some pics - but I can't figure out how to upload them from my phone (I know, I should be able to do that by now). Basically, she has 4" cans with a narrow trim. Inside the housing/trim, she used a bulb that is apparently a flood or spot light. It has this ceramic-looking surround that actually is enamel-coated steel that fills up the rest of the hole, minimizing the swiss cheese look very effectively. I took the pics down to the electric supply house today. The guy I am working with down there said that it MIGHT be possible to special order a 4" retrofit LED can that is IC-rated to go next to insulation, but he is unaware of any such option. I'm going to look into it on-line but I am weary of everything I want being complicated! He showed me an option that looks exactly like the pic you posted on Wed, Oct 2, 13 at 18:05, lcskaisgir. It was really reasonably priced as it was all-in-one (TCP LED12DR5630K). But, seeing it in person, it has a thick rim and a 3/16" lip that bumps it down from the ceiling a bit and I don't know what THAT is about. And...of course it is a 6". The second option is considerably more expensive (at least double), as it involves separate trim and housing. You can pick the kind of bulb you want to use, though, and whether you want it recessed in the can or more flush with the housing. The trim is thinner and less wide - and one of them replicated the look of my friend's 4" cans (though in 6"). This one is kind of like my friend's, which I kinda liked because it was sparkley and bright:  The other option, which is a BR bulb that the electrician is very partial to, as he likes the way it spreads the light over a large area: It's nice because at least the bulb isn't recessed. The housing is adjustable so you can sink the light in to the can or not. He also said 5" really doesn't make sense as it generally goes in a 6" can. I'm not sure why they would do that... Anyway I hope that is helpful for you. I'm going to go on a wild goose chase to find 4" retrofit LED's that are IC rated... and probably end up pretty much going around full circle... Steph2000, I'm not sure I understand your issue. Why couldn't you use either of these housing units...http://t.homedepot.com/p/Halo-4-in-Recessed-Aluminum-LED-Remodel-T24-Recessed-Housing-H995RICAT/203310666/ or http://t.homedepot.com/p/Halo-4-in-CFL-Insulation-Contact-Air-Tite-Remodel-Housing-H471RICAT/202024777/? They are both 4", IC rated for remodel. About the 2700K...the 4" bulb I tried from Lowe's provided the same amount and color of light that my 6" incandescent 65 watt bulb provided. I had been going back and forth between 2700K and 3000K but since my counters will likely be "coolish", I want to keep the lighting on the warmer side. I was surprised that the 4" bulb provided as much light as the 6" but they are 600 lumens, which is 25 more than the HD Ecosmarts and they're $10 cheaper. Winner winner:) Andreak100, that ecosmart bulb is one of the ones that is recommended so I'm sure you'll be happy w/it. If you want to save a few bucks (for me it was several bucks since I'm needing 8 of these), try the one at Lowe's for $10 cheaper and 25 more lumens. As for the housing, yours look very reasonably priced. I need something similar as we are also ripping down our ceiling, but mine don't need to be IC rated. Sounds like you're all set...good luck:) Huh! So, it isn't a big deal to get a 4" LED retrofit that is IC tested AND will allow me to have bulbs that aren't recessed deep into the can? Well, that is great news if that is the case. I kept asking the guy yesterday "WHY NOT?" People LIKE 4", want to move to LED and don't all live in new houses or ones with multiple stories, especially up here. I was thinking I would have to start a business venture of my own. ;) I tried googling for them - and kept coming up with products that were either IC-rated or retrofit, but not both. Oddly, though, when I just searched HD for both of the housing units you provided the item numbers for, the HD website says that they are not stocked in the store and cannot be shipped to This item cannot be shipped to the following state(s): AK,GU,HI,PR,VI. How strange is that?? I have tried to research in the Lighting forum, but have found a lot of it confusing given I'm not very techy and have zero experience with recessed lights. It was helpful to go in to the electrician yesterday and let him show me things... I did post a thread there this morning after my attempts to google were not working. I saw a 2700 yesterday and it was really yellow compared to the other options. Definitely warmer. I think I've decided to go with something a bit cleaner and brighter. 3000 is probably enough for me, though the electrician was recommending 4000 or something. I told him I'm not into blue light... lcskaisgir - we don't HAVE to use the IC rated casings, but I'm opting to since the cost isn't much difference and if it turns out that we change things around in the future with the house, we won't have issues. (we are planning on putting an addition on down the road but don't know all the particulars at this point...my final kitchen is so much different than our original planned kitchen that I can only imagine how much will change for our addition!) Does anyone know of a disadvantage to go with an IC rated housing if you don't have to use it? The EcoSmart/Cree vs. Utilitech at Lowe's is only $3 difference per in our area, so it's less than $25 difference to go with the "tried and true" that's recommended here in the lighting portion of the forum, but if it was a $10 difference for me like you mentioned, I'd have to look a little more at that difference. I wasn't finding any real info on the CRI or the temperature for the Utilitech either. Since I'm hoping that these bulbs will last 10 years or more, it means that it's only $2.50 per year. lcskaisgir - we don't HAVE to use the IC rated casings, but I'm opting to since the cost isn't much difference and if it turns out that we change things around in the future with the house, we won't have issues. (we are planning on putting an addition on down the road but don't know all the particulars at this point...my final kitchen is so much different than our original planned kitchen that I can only imagine how much will change for our addition!) Does anyone know of a disadvantage to go with an IC rated housing if you don't have to use it? The EcoSmart/Cree vs. Utilitech at Lowe's is only $3 difference per in our area, so it's less than $25 difference to go with the "tried and true" that's recommended here in the lighting portion of the forum, but if it was a $10 difference for me like you mentioned, I'd have to look a little more at that difference. I wasn't finding any real info on the CRI or the temperature for the Utilitech either. Since I'm hoping that these bulbs will last 10 years or more, it means that it's only $2.50 per year. My neighbor only has 5 of them - four along her long run and over to her side door to her yard - and one by her pantry. She does not have a second row over by her island - just 2 pendants. I really don't think she needs them, either, and that it might be major overkill to put them in. Of course, our kitchens are narrow, especially compared to a lot of GW'ers. But, it has me rethinking the 2 rows idea... What size recessed light for kitchen?Recessed Lighting Sizes
4-inch and 5-inch fixtures are great in kitchens for providing overhead countertop lighting. 6-inch fixtures are most common for general lighting purposes. 7- to 9-inch fixtures will create a wider wash of light.
Is 4 or 6 recessed lighting better?Style – 6-inch lights can appear more proportionate for mid-size and large rooms where 4-inch lights can look under scale for the room. Function – 6-inch lights usually have a higher lumen output than 4-inch lights and a wide beam angle which makes them idea for general lighting.
Is 66-inch lights will become necessary when you move into larger areas such as a living room, basement, or oversized bedroom. Using 6-inch recessed lights means cutting down on the amount needed for the same coverage, as well as great for taller ceilings.
Where can you use 4A four-inch recessed light works better in smaller spaces. That's why you'll typically find them in cupboards, pantries, or bathrooms. It's an excellent choice for task lighting when you have an under-cabinet or wall installation to use.
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4 or 6-inch recessed lights in kitchen
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