Is Mason and Hamlin A good piano

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Hey guys, I'm wondering what your opinions are on newly made Mason and Hamlin pianos, and how well they compare with the pre-Aeolian Mason and Hamlins

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woohoo123:

The designer of the pianos boasts to all who will listen that the new Masons are quite obviously the best because, after all, they are the loudest pianos. If your object is brute force, I STRONLY urge you to try one.

Karl Watson,
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I regularly play a well-maintained 7' ca. 1920's Mason for work, and I own a 1916 Mason A that was rebuilt in 2015. While piano shopping for my piano, I went to the factory in Haverhill MA and tried several new As, AAs and BBs. I would have bought the new BB except for cost and my wife's objection to having 6'11" of piano in the house.

I met the designer, who said many things to me about the pianos, but I didn't think he was overly concerned with volume. Yes, these pianos are on the loud side. They also have a complex and beautiful tone, are good at showing musical detail, and there's a lovely variety of tone quality across the piano's range and across the dynamic range so that I can make a lot of different sounds. What I love the most about playing a Mason is that I can bring out the sounds I want, I can hear all kinds of details, and if I'm doing something wrong I can really hear what I'm doing wrong

I prefer playing a Mason to playing a Steinway. Particularly in models under 7 feet.

I understand that they are built for longevity as well, which explains why we encounter so many good old ones, but I don't know much about what goes into designing a piano for longevity.

I felt with the new Masons I tried that they were every bit as good as the old ones. Not exactly the same, but every bit as good. There is a smooth consistency to the WNG action that really changes the experience.

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Rich:

There is truth in what you've written. I've learned of recent efforts at Haverhill to introduce some semblance of beauty to their voicing. In particular, I'm reliably informed from numerous sources that they've retained the services of an extremely talented German-American voicer/technician that has been able to uncover what was well-hidden gold in the tone. May he have great success with these new creations, so utterly unlike the vintage pianos.

Instead of issuing an archly-phrased critical broadside of these new pianos, I want to say that the following constitutes a personal assessment, based on my own experience and those of friends far better qualified to judge what is or isn't a good piano. And so, here follows:

I heartily approve of the new, pseudo-Steinway Trajan font used on the fallboard and elsewhere. It helps make it clear that this is a new creation with only the most token connections to the pre-1930 artist instruments. The new Masons are made for a customer looking for caricature, rock-crushing, American Steinway tone, but at a lower price. To be fair, the smaller pianos are clearly SUPERIOR, and in every way, to the similar-sized Steinway models. Across the range, the actions can be MARVELOUS. However, any prospective buyer hoping to find the glorious, sympathetic, infinitely colourful tone of the vintage instruments will be grossly disappointed. But their disappointment will be quite put in the shade by the tongue-lashing administered by the technical director, should the prospective customer be so unfortunate as to question ANYTHING about the new instruments. Pianists of distinction, pianists having national and/or international reputations, are unwelcome at the Haverhill works, unless, of course, they slip in and out, anonymously and unrecognised.

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Because of arthritis, my wife has a fairly light touch on the keys. She played a new BB a couple of weeks ago in Lafayette. Absolutely loved the piano, as she could do a lot with it, without having to really lean into it.

To each his own, but I'll take it over a Steinway of equivalent size...

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Someone very reputable told me the WNG all-carbon fiber actions are made by Hailun, but I have been unable to confirm this.

I was getting excited about the newer M&H pianos, but I just didn't like them as much as I thought I would. I played a few grands.

I played their M&H 50 upright a few months ago and it was just horrible. It was almost like the bass just disappeared the lower I got, and the action was so tight I could barely get the keys down. I blame the action tightness on dealer-prep, but the bass disappearing...I can't explain. I even moved it away from the wall and same result.

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Rich:

There is truth in what you've written. I've learned of recent efforts at Haverhill to introduce some semblance of beauty to their voicing. In particular, I'm reliably informed from numerous sources that they've retained the services of an extremely talented German-American voicer/technician that has been able to uncover what was well-hidden gold in the tone. May he have great success with these new creations, so utterly unlike the vintage pianos.

Instead of issuing an archly-phrased critical broadside of these new pianos, I want to say that the following constitutes a personal assessment, based on my own experience and those of friends far better qualified to judge what is or isn't a good piano. And so, here follows:

I heartily approve of the new, pseudo-Steinway Trajan font used on the fallboard and elsewhere. It helps make it clear that this is a new creation with only the most token connections to the pre-1930 artist instruments. The new Masons are made for a customer looking for caricature, rock-crushing, American Steinway tone, but at a lower price. To be fair, the smaller pianos are clearly SUPERIOR, and in every way, to the similar-sized Steinway models. Across the range, the actions can be MARVELOUS. However, any prospective buyer hoping to find the glorious, sympathetic, infinitely colourful tone of the vintage instruments will be grossly disappointed. But their disappointment will be quite put in the shade by the tongue-lashing administered by the technical director, should the prospective customer be so unfortunate as to question ANYTHING about the new instruments. Pianists of distinction, pianists having national and/or international reputations, are unwelcome at the Haverhill works, unless, of course, they slip in and out, anonymously and unrecognised. Karl

I'm pleased you decided to expound on your initial post here...although your comments about the technical director and pianists with national and/or international reputations seem a tad harsh.

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Sounds good to me (with headphones), remarkable for such a small piano.

WhoDwaldi
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I love properly done Mason & Hamlin tone.

I believe one of the problems the current M&H pianos have is Longitudinal mode "noise" being exacerbated by the type of bridge pin they use. Last time I looked the new M&H pianos have stainless steel alloy bridge pins. The first generation of stainless pins were very hard, and the treble tone was hideously full of false beats and noises. They switched to a softer alloy and this reduced the problem.

One would think that this experience would cause them to think of investigating this connection further. But they seemingly didn't. They just put softer stainless alloy instead of saying to themselves, "wait a minute, what is going on here?"

I also have heard pianos where technicians thought, "Oh if I make the bridge pins harder I will get all this extra energy better reflected at the bridge and gain tone". One technician used drill rod to make bridge pins.

The result; harsh treble full of false beats.

We in the industry should be investigating what are the best configurations at the string terminations for best tone and durability. But no one else but me is that I know of. And until I can get enough of the industry to listen to my findings, nothing will improve for prospective piano buyers.

If enough of the industry would pay attention, then the leverage to have certain parts made to the proper specifications would be there. I can't get certain parts providers to make these changes alone.

And if you want to listen to my findings, all you have to do is visit my shop.

I have proven that controlling the way Longitudinal modes are reflected and coupled to Transverse modes has a HUGE influence on tone quality, even in the treble where the fundamental L-mode frequencies are above the range of hearing. One of the ways they do this I discovered is that inaudible L-modes can produce audible beats.

Other makes of pianos can have these issues as well. M & H ends up standing out this way because the tonal expectations resonate deeply with artists prior experiences and they don't hear that deep tone with the new ones.

M & H has done many fabulous things to improve the piano and I love the W,N&G hammer shanks, they are the best in the world.

The Burgetts family has done many wonderful things to save M & H from extinction, I do wish them every success. They do have considerable engineering assets even though it is a very small company, they and the industry as a whole just need to take a little friendly advice.

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Carey:

Sorry about the harshness, but I assure you that I was using my very best, WASP, restraint when I wrote. If we were face to face, I'd use every word and name that I could lay my tongue to. The person to whom I refer is a horror show, an abusive bully, and his miserable treatment of inquirers, no matter their greatness, is legendary.

However, things may be changing in Haverhill. Word has it that sluggish sales have caused some retrenchment. The very talented and respected young fellow that is now prepping the pianos is making a difference. There is no question about the pianos resembling the vintage Masons - they do not nor can they ever, as the bellies and string scales are new. However, if the reports I hear are reliable, the new pianos sound much better, better on their own, their new terms.

Karl

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Seems like everyone has great thoughts towards Mason and Hamlin pianos...

But do they really compare to Steinway pianos despite the cheaper price tag?

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Seems like everyone has great thoughts towards Mason and Hamlin pianos...

But do they really compare to Steinway pianos despite the cheaper price tag?

Whether M & H compares with a Steinway is truly personal choice of touch and tone. I have a vintage M & H and wouldn't trade, but there are others that strongly prefer a Yamaha or a Steinway or...... Try for the piano that feels and sounds right TO YOU rather than the name on the fallboard.

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But do they really compare to Steinway pianos despite the cheaper price tag?

Price tag means NOTHING other than bragging rights (or showing off how foolish one is).

What comes into play is the sound and touch you want. For example, personally, I feel Estonia comes in far above Steinway at 1/3 the cost (or less!), but some people prefer the "boisterous" sound of a Steinway to the "clear" sound of the Estonia. Again, all so extremely subjective, it doesn't matter in the end to the masses; only you.

Even materials seem to matter less and less the more time I spend here. People say the all carbon actions in M&H or the ABS carbon actions in Kawai are absolutely the best thing since sliced bread, but then I have talked with techs who think they are the worst things ever. People are saying that Chinese parts are extremely good, and the cost is just peanuts.

I recently told the story in another thread how my pianist friend bought a Kimball grand for $4k and thinks it's the best piano ever. She has a degree in piano. She performs. I, personally, don't understand, but what I think doesn't matter.

I have another friend (DMA, performs for a living) who thinks Steinway pianos smaller than the B are just horrific pianos and can't believe anyone would spend that kind of money on something so awful.

And around and around in circles we go. So, be price agnostic when looking at pianos (within your overall price range).

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'despite their cheaper price tag' might imply some erroneous assumptions about what the premium costs involved with a steinway are actually covering. consider the possibility that the higher cost goes to pay for extensive (borderline vulgar) marketing and promotions, production inefficiencies, or greed connected with projecting itself as a 'prestige brand.'

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John Sprung,
There is no formal definition of "false" tone. To some degree falseness is a case of "I know it when I hear it". For me "falseness" is any semi or fully periodic sounds both transient and sustained that interfere with the musical periodic modes.

A single string sounding by itself that produces "beats" is the most common type of falseness. But there are also interactions among the strings and the termination points that can create false sounds. This is where the longitudinal mode energy in the string can disrupt the desired transverse modes.

L-modes can also produce beats between themselves. This is a source of some noises found in duplex scales, bridge agraffes, bridges with hard pins and certain types of bridge construction.

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Good morning all - Excellent question!

Rich - thanks for your concise summary of the sound and quality of the latest pianos that have been coming out Haverhill, MA. In particular, I have been impressed with the 7' Model BB, 6'4" Model AA and 5'4" Model B. When properly tone regulated, voiced and tuned.. and with proper hammer choice (e.g. Abel Natural or even Cold-pressed Ronsen), these pianos have few peers in the new piano market at their price range (e.g. Shigeru Kawai, Estonia), and in the opinion of many, outperform their counterparts out of Astoria, NY - at any price. I had the privilege of performing a recital at the factory last September on a world-class CC-94 - initially customized with Ronsen hammers by Ron Winter & Sons Piano Company in Indiana (http://winter-pianos.com/new-pianos/) - that was one of the most lyrical instruments I have every played!

Dear Karl - I know you have made some emphatic declarations over the years on the new piano's "loudness", etc, but considering some of the recent threads late last year, where many of us discussed at length the company's new emphasis on proper voicing and tone regulation... I urge you to take up Rich's offer. I had the great pleasure to work directly with the Mason & Hamlin factory and their chief voicing technician on developing this potential on my own new 7' Model BB, purchased in late 2015 - to great effect:
Mason & Hamlin BB: Optimal Tone Regulating & Concert Voicing

Here's a recording made just after voicing and tone-regulation were completed last October:
Jason Solomonides - Bach: Jesu Joy of Man's Desiring - Mason & Hamlin BB

I am proud to have purchased a new Mason & Hamlin BB and equally honored to have been recently named to the "Mason & Hamlin Artist" roster. I find the piano and WN&G action an absolute delight to play. Here's a sample of a recent recording on my instrument:

Jason Solomonides - Chopin: Etude Op.25, No.1, "Aeolian Harp" - Mason & Hamlin BB

And here's a couple recent recordings of more lyrical works on the BB:

Jason Solomonides - Schumann: Traumerai - Mason & Hamlin BB
Jason Solomonides - Grieg: Cradle Song - Mason & Hamlin BB

For those interested - Here's a link to a playlist of all my new recordings on the BB:
Jason Solomonides, piano - My New Piano Recordings

P.S. One of the posts on this thread questioned the origins of the WN&G Carbon-Fiber/Composite action - which many believe is a world-class action for piano restorations of any premium make - and now a differentiator for the M&H new piano product line IF the piano is properly tone-regulated and voiced. Although I believe some of the individual composite action parts are sourced in Asia, the M&H "Select" and "Natural" hammers utilized are manufactured by Abel in Germany and the actions are fully assembled and regulated at the Haverhill, MA factory, as we observed in our most recent PianoWorld tour in 2016.

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Jason, thank you for the comprehensive and enlightening post. That Chopin etude, wonderfully played, is one of my "desert island" essentials.

Is there actually a choice of hammers when buying an MH? Or is this an after-market decision? What is the standard hammer used by MH at this time? I am a MH fan but the authorized dealer here rarely has a new one in stock.

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